In this interview, the Empowerment Story Whisperer, Leslie Karen Hammond, candidly shares her thoughts on what it means to have a spiritual awakening. She talks about an abstract idea with such clarity and ease that anyone listening will find themselves nodding their head in agreement and with understanding. Yet, this is only the beginning of our refreshing and insightful conversation.
She also talks about her spiritual evolution, what it means to be a Shaman and a medicine woman. The heart of our conversation rests in addressing how to navigate the changing tides of life so that we eventually ALL answer the divine call placed on our lives. We each experience trauma and the goal is to learn how to move past such trauma, in partnership with our Creator, God. The conversation is rich, fun and oozing with insight no matter where you are on your spiritual Path. All things truly work together for our good, and how to we hold on to that truth in the midst of our storm and utter chaos? We talk about all of that and so much more.Can you imagine what the world would be if we each answered the call on our lives? Click To Tweet
WHERE TO FIND LESLIE KAREN HAMMOND:
TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS:
- Leave a note in the comment section below.
- Ask a question over on Facebook.
- Share this show on Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram.
TO HELP OUT THE SHOW:
- Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and I read each one.
- Subscribe on iTunes.
Special thanks to Leslie Karen Hammond for joining me this week. Until next time!
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Tamala: Hey, hey, hey, everybody! It is Tamala Baldwin and you are tuning in to another episode of Becoming Love. Today we’re talking about a whole bunch of yummy goodness. Primarily, I want to talk about explore how can we remain connected and anchored to our Source. When you are in the middle of your ish hitting the fan… how do you I guess remain grounded through all of that? Today, we’re talking with an amazing woman and her name is Leslie Karen Hammond. She calls herself the Empowering Story Whisperer. She is going to help shape, shift and make this conversation come to life. So, welcome, welcome, Leslie.
Leslie: Oh, thank you! I am so thrilled to be here and you talked about shaking things up so I’m compelled to pull a rattle off the shelf here.
Tamala: Oh, do it do it yea.
Leslie: love it love it.
Tamala: Tell people why do you call yourself the Empowering Story Whisperer?
Leslie: It’s a gift to be able to listen to someone telling me a piece of their story that has this vibration of disempowerment and being able to take it… And ever so slightly put a different spin on it, where the eyebrows go up…. And I get a mmm I never thought about it that way. This way they can eventually become empowered by that story instead of it being a hindrance.
Tamala: Okay speaking of becoming empowered by your story… So, we all go through crap, right? We all experience trauma, heartbreak, and disappointment. But we sometimes can’t possibly imagine that all that crap is for our good and is helping us along our way. I guess get a we need help and here is where you can step in. How can someone believe that there ish is for they’re good?
Leslie: Yes, I love that! I’ve been hearing that ish come up more so I’m going to start using that immediately. So, thank you for that. Well, first of all, people need to feel that they’re safe because once someone goes through something there’s a barrier that gets built. I used to call myself a Master Mason because I was the queen of walling things off. Never wanted to go there… And until someone can feel safe, meaning not only physically but emotionally, mentally, mentally and spiritually. I mean, there’s this whole component of safety because when something has gone wrong and we feel like we’ve been attacked in some way… And it doesn’t just need to be physical. There are all kinds of memories that get evoked by even the slightest thing. It’s this muscle memory. It’s this emotional memory, this sensory memory whether what you hear or what you see
Tamala: It’s a trigger.
Leslie: Exactly! Triggers are everywhere and until someone feels that they are safe to explore that, because they know someone else is there, kind of like navigating and holding the wheel for them, so that they don’t have to go through that and figure their way out of it. If they don’t feel that kind of safety then they won’t dive in. Having the ability, I like to refer to it as holding space. So, it’s creating this, call it a magical bubble, if that feels that feels or sounds right.
Tamala: It feels yummy too. I like it.
Leslie: I mean, it’s holding this space for someone to do that sacred play that they need to. I wish that I could show you what someone looks like when they come out the other side. I mean, it’s been such a privilege for someone to come to me and for me to do that sacred play with them and hold space for them. Energetically they transform, physically they transform, emotionally they transform. It’s such an honor because that’s like a launching pad and the things that women accomplish after they go through that process. I mean it’s just so incredible and so beautiful.
Tamala: So, when you’re going through trauma and you’re in the middle of your crap, what a technique to begin to even begin to feel safe again? I think that’s an important thing.
Leslie: I agree.
Tamala: And I think that until we begin to feel safe again we’re going to consistently have those walls as you just mentioned. Also, these triggers are still there even if we think that we’re coping, because we hide behind our beautiful walls. So how we begin to feel safe?
Leslie: It all starts with either one of two words. Some people like the word faith. Some people like the word trust. Pick whichever one, but ultimately, they both mean the same thing. And in terms of both of those words, it’s really having a visceral belief that you are ultimately protected. You are you’re a child of God, of Jesus of Buddha, of Source, of Great Spirit by whatever term you’re most comfortable calling that Higher Power. You are a child of the Divine and you being here is not a mistake.
Tamala: I’ve been saying that we are not here to suffer but I remember when I experienced, I guess, two dark nights of the soul, with the most the most recent being probably 3 years ago… I felt completely unsafe. I felt completely disconnected from God and I wanted to have a fistfight with God. I really did and so the only way I could survive that was because even though I was fighting, even though I felt unsafe… I was still praying. Specifically, I prayed for God to help me love me. So, for someone that has experienced immense lost like say of a child or something how can they tap back into that?
Leslie: Thank you for bringing that up. Particularly, with such loss, that doesn’t make sense, like that of a child it’s helpful to believe or at least entertain before you get to that belief stage -that every person who comes into physical form has a higher self, has a soul that made an agreement before they took this physical form. So, they knew in advance what they signed up for and they agreed to come into the body they were about to occupy. Regardless, if they knew what was going to happen and even when it makes absolutely no sense, which that I mean you see that in the news every day if you watch the news… but the work that they needed to do was done in the time that they were here. In many cases, especially with wrongful death, you’ll find that so much happens because of that wrongful death. People are brought together and I mean communities come together in ways that probably wouldn’t have been possible if it hadn’t been for the tragedy.
Tamala: Oh, you are so right you were so right about that. I mean, especially now… we’re in the middle of so much. Let’s say, cleansing, you know.
Leslie: Yeah! Good word for it. I don’t watch the news because I don’t have the temperament or the bandwidth for it. But yes, I completely agree! There is a significant kind of cleansing going on an opportunity for awakening and the opportunity for now for change. Change is being instigated everywhere.
Tamala: Yeah! So, a man just lost his life defending two women that were being attacked and they were Muslim women. It was awful but I think it’s a symbol of what it looks like to stand up and defend someone. And we don’t see that all the time… to see a random citizen defend someone else is just beautiful. It’s going to plant a good seed in so many minds across the world.
Leslie: Well absolutely! I mean, for the love of freedom, for the love of justice, for the passion of fighting for or being an advocate for injustice, and for standing up for the sake of love.
Tamala: Yes! Love! Now you that mentioned the word awakening a minute ago, I wanted to get your thoughts. What does that mean to you – to have a spiritual awakening in your own terms.
Leslie: It can start ever so small. It could be walking outside one day and seeing a bee pollinating the flowers and realizing that there is a very sacred symmetry to absolutely everything.
Tamala: I love that.
Leslie: …Yeah, it’s good thing that’s recorded because I don’t think I’ve ever said that before. But if ever go to a park and you see a child playing. And you see them laying in the grass and just magically being entranced by what’s happening in the grass and the things that they can’t see… That’s really where that awareness begins but as we graduate into adulthood, then depending on who we surround ourselves with we can lose that sense of observation and that magic of seeing the world through the eyes of a child. It’s about connection and about believing and for people who might not be there yet, there is a simple exercise that they can do. With a very open mind, take both of their palms and hold them a few inches apart. If you close your eyes and you open your heart you’ll feel something between your hands.
Tamala: Can I tell a story? Story time! When I was an undergrad I was heavily into spirituality. And at that time, it was not as popular as it is now, talking about energy and all that stuff. I remember, doing that exercise in my dorm room while my roommate sleeping, I’m trying not to be weird.
Leslie: Yeah! Don’t want to be that gal.
Tamala: Like what is she doing! I remember doing that exact exercise and then from there I began to see colors and so forth. It was just awesome so I love that you mentioned that. Spiritual awakening for me can be kind of alignment coupled with this awareness of what’s is unseen.
Leslie: Oh absolutely! Some people find that they’re very empathetic. Then that could be a sense of awakening too and particularly, I mean the folks I love to work with the most are very visceral. They know they feel things and it really goes beyond words. I’m even struggling right now to find a word for it. So, with an awakening spiritual, emotional or otherwise, there’s a tendency for you to move from here down to here.
Tamala: …And then you tap into your heart.
Leslie: I am! So, it’s the ability to bypass the mind and go from that place is the seventh chakra of the crown. Go past the third eye in the beginning because people get so caught up in thought. And just source from the heart.
Tamala: I love it.
Leslie: Magical things will happen.
Tamala: I know.
Leslie: For people that are starting off, if you find that… Okay, so here is just a quick little story about meditation. So, a lot of people hear about meditation. They think, oh I have to sit like this for half an hour and they spend two minutes trying and then 28 minutes beating themselves up. Because they did not do it right. So, my invitation to any of you who might fall into that category, meditation can be any number of things and if you practice you’ll find a little bit of an awakening in each of those. So, for the busy mom, washing dishes can be meditative. Painting a house can be meditative, mowing the lawn, washing the floor or washing the car, I mean brushing your hair. Any absolutely any activity that has pretty much like a single motion can be considered a meditation because you are present in the motion. You are present in the activity and you’re not thinking your way. It’s like what people will refer to being in the zone. Yeah, it’s like being in the zone just by being present. If you fall off the wagon, so what? Start over again. No big deal.
Tamala: No big deal, at all. I personally love meditating. I can’t say I do it all the time. I’m still working myself.
Leslie: Aren’t we all.
Tamala: I want to talk that talk more about the heart. For people having an awakening, experiencing all these emotions and feelings out of nowhere can be daunting at times. Is there a reason to be afraid? If someone feels afraid what advice do you have for them?
Leslie: The fear comes from a deep place and it’s attached to something else. An experience whether it’s in this lifetime or another. For example, there is so much of my childhood that I don’t remember and I know that’s for a very good reason. On occasion, something will get under my skin… there’ll be a trigger. Like what we were talking about earlier and I won’t understand it. So, when someone is feeling, you don’t have to necessarily understand it, but it is so helpful if you honor it. Instead of asking why is this happening to me ask how? How am I meant to navigate this experience or how am I meant to learn from this? How can I grow from this? How can I help other people? How can I put a stop to this cycle in my family? How can I get to the bottom of this? So it doesn’t happen like this again?
Tamala: I love that so sometimes when we think of spiritual awakening you think of the love part. We sometimes ignore that there will be other stuff that may come. Once you’re asking how, do you think it’s important to release as well? Because even now I’ve had you know my heart opened plenty of times and it’s always a clearing and then releasing. It’s a cycle that never ends. I guess for someone that’s new to the Path, how do they understand the importance of releasing it or rising above whatever triggers they don’t understand?
Leslie: Oh, I do and I would invite anyone who is just beginning to dabble in those realms and to find someone or a group that you can go and sit in on because it can be so intimidating to people that don’t have any other community to share this experience with. It’ll stop them in their tracks because they won’t know how to navigate what to do next. Then they could be vulnerable to other things that they never saw coming, so it’s important to find a community or to seek help because a lot of the people that I’ve worked with…. whether they’re healers themselves or they’ve been in these realms of alternative therapies, be it energy work or yoga or health coaches. I mean, everyone gets to a point when they’re not capable of doing that level of work themselves because they’re just too close to it so they need someone else to hold a whole space for them. And to guide them through the process. Like Eckhart Tolle, for example. He went it alone and had the remarkable awakening that took you know several years.
Tamala: Several years.
Leslie: He had the initial experience and then he slept on park benches for two years. And then he spent about five years in this state of extreme bliss.
So, it was all a process. Now he’s more the exception than the rule. But in a lot of cases like when I was studying with shamans in Peru, they would talk about people who would be initiated by being struck by lightning or by death and coming back. So, it’s always helpful to have some assistance in the beginning especially when there’s something that’s difficult. Because as easy as it seems to stay distant as much as possible from whatever this thing is the more you try and push it away the more it’s going to keep coming back and stronger every time.
Tamala: Yeah, because the more you push anything away it multiplies and magnifies in our life. I’m curious to know about your studying in Peru. I didn’t know you lived there. So, tell me, like what made you go there?
Leslie: Well it began, believe it or not, it began in the rooms of a long18-year marriage to an alcoholic where I was gifted an amazing son. But I got to the point where I couldn’t you talk about you changing up the story. I couldn’t stay in that energy of the same story being told over and repeatedly. It served a purpose but then I needed to come out of that. Then I found I found a woman who taught Reiki. So, I signed up with her and I went all the way through the courses and became a Reiki Master. This all happened it was in less than two years and she and her husband were also shamans. They taught Peruvian shamanism. So, I went through I went a level of course work with them. Then, I started studying with one of their teachers who was Peruvian. I’ve been down there twice and each time an extraordinary breakthrough occurred that changed my life significantly. And I just I love the jungle down there. That’s another reason for all these plants. It’s because I have strong affinity to the jungle.
Tamala: So, at your level of I studying and being on your path, I’m curious to know what happens at that level you know? Also explain the difference between reiki and shamanism.
Leslie: Okay! Alright, sure. Reiki is a Chinese term and it refers to energy that is drawn down into oneself. Although chi is the energy that’s within, Reiki is a laying on of hands or holding hands above a person’s body and it brings a very loving and light energy to heal things. It goes across all time and space. I always thought I would write a book called Reiki like spaghetti. There’s a thousand different ways that you can do with pasta. That’s the thing. I mean, there’s no limit to what you can do with it. I found that it’s a gentle way to approach things. You can heal things in the past and the present and even send it to the future. Nowadays, I rarely use. It’s probably one of the least things that I call on. Shamanism is a connection to an understanding on a very deep level of visceral level that everything has an essence to it. There is a very powerful connection that we have, to the earth and everything on it. Everything that lives in it, that crawls, that breaths, that swims, that flies and then also to the heavens. You know, to the planets, to the Sun, to the moon, to the universe, to timelessness, to the essence of purity. To the to the essence of who we were before we even became a physical form. So, you were asking what happens once you reach that level of study. For me, it got to a point where I took in what I was meant to and then I abandoned all my teachers to teach. This was something I was encouraged to do by a mentor. So, the abandoning of teachers is done from the perspective of it’s now time to follow my own intuition. It’s now time to trust that what I am told what a client needs. It’s time for me to trust that I have the capacity to hold space for someone to do the work. It’s time for me to trust that when I call them to come they come. I fill a room I fill a city block I mean I fill a state so there’s really no way to measure that expansiveness.
Tamala: What do you mean by them?
Leslie: By them meaning any of my guides, whether it is a teacher that has crossed over, whether it’s a direct connection to the Divine or Source or God. By whatever term you want to use, it is the calling in any of my client’s guides. It’s calling in my Higher Self. It’s calling in the Higher Self of my client or anyone in their family that may need to be there to help them hold space and to help them do that sacred play.
Tamala: I find this topic to be so interesting, you know, how to connect with your higher. Because there is no map for any of this stuff. It kind of is an individual a personal experience. So, I am curious, do you have any suggestions on how to access or tap into them?
Leslie: Oh, absolutely. Well, for starters, I need to be in a very dark space for me to for me to do my own deepest personal work. I need to lay down and have well not lay down but you know like have an eye pillow or something and listen to some music. I mean, I can tap into things pretty much like anytime I set my intent that that’s what I want to do. But, for people who are just in the beginning phases it’s good to eliminate distraction wherever possible, so that’s why I suggested the eye pillow. But, if you can play some music in the background, something soft and meditative with no voices and you put yourself in a comfortable position. So, for starters, laying down is also good because this way you don’t have to worry about any aches or pains that pop up. And people wonder, oh am I slouching or oh am I doing this am I doing that. So, if you set yourself up so that you can lay down comfortably and you can listen to something. Burn a candle or burn incense so you’re creating an environment that is conducive. It’s also helpful to say a prayer or if saying a prayer feels like a little bit of a stretch for some people, then set an intent by saying, “I set the intent that my time in this room is going to be sacred. And I am going to connect to my Higher Self. I’m going to connect to Buddha, to God to Jesus. I’m going to connect to the energy of these plants, like you, I’m going to be open and connect to whatever is for my highest good.” And then, open the heart and do everything that you can to eliminate those monkey mind thoughts that we’re all susceptible too. But it really begins with setting the intent for what you want to experience and just going with it. And start with three minutes. Start with five minutes. I mean, if somebody tries to begin with an hour and it’s new for them, chances are they will struggle with it. Then, they won’t feel like it’s been a success and they’ll be more intimidated about starting again. So, just start small because when you start small you’re more likely to have a success and then when you have a success. Then you can give yourself a high five, and you can feel good about what you’ve done and then you can go back again. You can build on that previous success, so that you’re creating a pattern of success, instead of a pattern of frustration.
Tamala: I just want to ask quickly, when you’re opening a heart, do you have any tips on how to open the heart?
Leslie: I love to imagine a beautiful golden white light coming into the heart and the breath.
Being conscious of breathing in through the nose and having that feed the entire body. Then, exhaling to cleanse, but also with that breath, on the inhale, invision that light expanding. Then, envision the heart expanding if someone wants to go to that place of unconditional love that they freely give to another person to an animal to nature. Or that unconditional bliss they feel when they listen to classical music or rock and roll or whatever it is that moves them. But to go to that place, so they can have a point of reference to begin from then it makes it easier.
Tamala: Basically, you’re saying to feel or to find a reference for the love that you consciously know of and expand on that and the heart basically expands. If anyone has a challenge with that, then use the imagination.
Leslie: Because as children we knew no bounds. We were courageous little two-legged creatures and we would go crazy and try anything. Play with the imagination because the imagination is an incredibly powerful tool and not don’t be afraid to use it. If someone’s had a really challenging time and doesn’t have an experience in the last 5 or 10 years of that kind of love, that they can connect to, have them imagine… I mean, imagine what it feels like to be loved to be, to be held, to be rocked, and to be warm. I mean, what would you imagine it would feel like to be supported unconditionally or to know that someone had your back?
Tamala: Yeah, when I first started out, I was always mad, especially when I was really depressed and mad at God. Even though I was made at God, I would still imagine or visualize being at the feet of this beautiful light and being consumed by it. I do have a question. You mentioned unconditional bliss. Now when we are going through an awakening, we do experience that heavenly embodiment so to speak. Now some would say that’s God coming into the body, others say it’s the Higher Self or the union of the Soul or even the Divine Masculine Feminine. What do you think it is?
Leslie: Well, it’s not a thinking thing.
Tamala: Yeah, right! You’re right.
Leslie: It’s whatever one intuits it to be. It is their version, their definitions. If you want to put a label on it, that’s the ego saying, “Oh, you better put a label on that because if not, you’re not going to be able to know if it’s right or wrong.” And there’s really no room for the ego. The ego does serve as a self-defense mechanism in a lot of cases. The ego is attached to the thought and then they’ll just be this you know, like the dog chasing the tail kind of thing. So, the invitation is to feel, it’s to sense. And when in that state, much like before, we talked about, ask the question how instead of why. Ask the question what is this showing me? Do you have a name? How do you want me to see you? How do you want me to feel you, not how do you want me to think about you?
Tamala: You’re right. You’re so right.
Leslie: You know how I ask the how and when asking a question, the thought will come in and the ego will come in to try and define the answer or put the response in a box. And the ego will then come in and say, “Oh well that’s not right.” Or, “that’s crazy,” or “that’s not what it’s supposed to be.” Well, play or imagine for a moment that that piece of the mind, the ego is on vacation or send it out for an ice-cream or a hamburger or whatever. You know, send it to the movie and just swim in the presence of whatever that is and when you ask, know that you’ll get whatever you’re ready for in that moment. And then next time you ask, you’ll be a little different space. So, I mean, each of us are in a different space than we were when we first got on the line together. So, every moment, we are transforming, every conversation, every interaction. We are always showing up as another version of ourselves. So, when asking that question of how or what every time, will be receiving an answer from a different place.
Tamala: I love that. I love that because it is about feeling as opposed to being so wrapped up in a label. And that can be a misstep for people that are starting out and learning and growing time trying to define it and put it in a box, rather than focusing on the love you mentioned. I know we are running out of time.
Leslie: I’m good.
Tamala: Okay, you’re good. Okay, I won’t keep you too much longer, okay?
Leslie: No worries. No worries.
Tamala: You mentioned two things that caught my attention. You said initiation when you’re in Peru. That is something I haven’t really had a chance to talk to anyone about. Can you elaborate as to what you meant by initiation? You don’t have to get too deep, just a little something.
Leslie: Well, for me, there are rites of passage, so I invite people to look at the milestones in their life as a rite of passage and celebrate it. Because we don’t do that as a society here and many other countries we do. And all the training that I’ve gone through, there has been an initiation or rite of passage. To go back to the very beginning, I mean my next rite of passage after birth was the car accident when my mother was killed and my life was spared. It took me long time before I fully understood that and before I saw how all those pieces came together. So, everyone goes through that rite of passage, that awakens them to their mission or to what their work is in the world. Everyone is awakened to that in a different way and some people who choose to ignore the call can expect something because it’ll be the equivalent of the spiritual 2×4 upside the head.
Tamala: Oh my gosh! So, for people that don’t know about the call – what it is and the call is an invitation to what?
Leslie: it’s an invitation to step into something that you’re afraid of, something that you don’t understand and a way that you can be of service to others. Because any pain, physical, mental emotional, psychological, spiritual, any pain that people go through it’s not in vain.
Tamala: I’m about to cry. That’s hitting something.
Leslie: It’s not in vain. Could you imagine if everyone who experienced that kind of turmoil answered the call to be of service? What would this world be like if everyone that experienced that said, okay I get it, I see and they chose not to be a victim. They chose to be an advocate.
Tamala: Wow, on that note I feel like you should end because that was beautiful and just powerful. If we all answer the call what with the world look like? That’s a big question and that’s one to feel not think about. Yes, Leslie, you see a theme. Yes, so any last little nuggets you want to share with people that we’re listening and watching today?
Leslie: Well, first off, acknowledge yourself for taking the time to gift yourself a new perspective on something you may just be cracking open that box a little bit.
And just acknowledge the fact that you have a curiosity and acknowledge the fact that you believe something larger than what you’re owning now. And that’s a beautiful thing and to please, please, please believe that whatever it is you find yourself in the middle, of just know that you aren’t alone. And that there is a community on this earthly plane and in the celestial plane that is here to support you. All you need to do is ask for help.
Tamala: That is beautiful and how speaking of asking, how can people follow up with you engage with you and just get more and more and more of Leslie Karen Hammond?
Leslie: Oh, thank you for asking. Well, there’s a few ways. Every week, I do a Facebook Live so if they go on to my Facebook page, which is called Healing Through Your Story. They can catch some videos I do every week. They can also go on to my blog. The website is LeslieCaronHammond.com/blog and there’ll be all kinds of things there that you can read. And I’ve also got videos there, so if you’d rather hear the lively discussion or you could read the blog. Either way and they can reach out to me through there and on Instagram. I’m LeslieCaronHammond1 and Twitter at confidence-builder BLDR so there’s all kinds of ways that they can reach out. I’ve been meaning to get on periscope, so we’ll see how that goes.
Tamala: Okay, what about working with you? How can someone work with you? What do you offer?
Leslie: Well, there’s a few ways, so I would welcome anyone who’s curious… we can hop on Zoom. We can have a video conversation and we can have a phone conversation. I make time in my schedule every week to spend about 45 minutes with people. And they can ask questions and I can let them know what I’m seeing as being a block. To know where they would really love to be and then we can take it from there, whether it ends up being some spiritual work or whether they’re looking to transform by telling their story. And I mean, which is what the ultimate transformation is feeling comfortable enough to start sharing what you’ve learned and being transparent about it. You know, there’s a few different ways, so, please explore the website because there’s a lot of juicy things on there. And if people are looking for speakers I absolutely love, love, love getting on stage and speaking to groups of women. So, there’s lots of ways that we can connect and engage.
Tamala: Leslie, you have such amazing energy. It has been a pleasure. I could talk to you for hours.
Leslie: We may have to do round two.
Tamala: Yes! I mean, there’s so many rich experiences. I just love it, love it, love it. Thank you so much and as Leslie has mentioned, think about what the world would be like if we each answered the call. Something to think about. Something to ponder. You’re not alone. You’re loved beyond your wildest imagination. And until next time…. thank you for tuning in to Becoming Love.
Leslie: That’s the loving like thanks for now.